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    EA Sports FIFA The r/FIFA Daily Discussion Thread -- November 09, 2020

    November 09, 2020

    EA Sports FIFA The r/FIFA Daily Discussion Thread -- November 09, 2020

    The r/FIFA Daily Discussion Thread -- November 09, 2020

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 03:08 AM PST

    This thread is the place to go for the posts that crop up in /new that don't necessarily need a full thread for discussion, which include but are not limited to:

    • Subjective questions (such as "Who is better, Player X or Player Y?" or "Which Chemstyle is best on PM R9?")

    • Investment / Trading / Market posts

    • Sharing Squads / Asking for Suggestions

    • Other general gameplay discussion

    • Meta posts & Quick Questions

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    Schmeichel was so unhappy with his defense he broke one of their necks after the goal was conceded. Brutal.

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 10:46 AM PST

    How long we thinking until EA release a 90+ rated David Luiz for absolutely no reason?

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 05:47 AM PST

    Happens every year, only a matter of time surely...

    submitted by /u/_benjones3
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    The score was 3-3 and he scored in the 89th minute an own goal

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 06:11 AM PST

    I got this message after they quit at 10 minutes in a friendlies game...

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 05:47 PM PST

    The Ultimate 4-3-3 Guide | Elite 1 | Div 1 | FIFA 21

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 10:15 AM PST

    (Condensed tactics and instructions at the very bottom)

    The Problem

    The 4-3-3 is largely a forgotten formation in the zero-sum game that is high level FUT. Often dismissed as a sweaty formation only good for wing abuse, the formation is out of favor because of a few legitimate complaints. "My wingers never get involved". "My striker is always isolated!" "What do I do with my central midfielders?" And thus, the would-be football purist sinks to the depth of hell that is 4231 dropback wait-for-wrong-player-switch and score hell.

    The Credentials

    I've been a consistent elite player since FIFA 17, with occasional top 100 finishes in FIFA 19 and 20 and a top 200 finish once so far in 21. Additionally, I have consistently maintained rather high division rivals skill ratings, currently sitting at around 2200. I also have written a small number of well-received guides on this subreddit in past years.

    The History

    I've always been a big fan of football tactics and particularly Pep Guardiola. Having read all the major books dedicated to him and his style, I was able to identify his basic football principles and attempt to re-create them with custom tactics and instructions. And for a few glorious months through fifa 20 it seemed as though I had cracked it. Recording 3 top 100 finishes, hardly ever dropping below elite 2, and generally playing beautiful offensive expansive football. But was that all a haze? Or was it a limited attempt to recreate Guardiola's tactical masterpiece without the specialized tools to do so? Was this mock-up instead propped up by raw ability, as well as the tried and tested knowledge of meta abuse that all elite players have? (wtf is this?) I sadly concluded that it was the latter. And so, with the gleaned knowledge of a hundred failed expeiments, I set off to create a new, improved 4-3-3, based on Guardiola's greatest rival. Jurgen Klopp.

    Disclaimer

    Its important to note that though I based my tactics on two real life managers, all my research and experimentation was for the purpose of creating a solid and effective 4-3-3 formation with minimal weaknesses, rather than just trying to recreate them for romantic purposes. Better to win than dream, isn't it?

    Why didn't Guardiola's 4-3-3 work?

    First of all, its important to note that on a results basis, I did achieve excellent results. Guardiola's 4-3-3 mockup proved particularly effective against high skill opponents, and I was able to peak at around 2400 SR last year, and 2200 SR this year. However, this had a lot to do with the fact that 2 out of every 3 opponents you face in the highest elo will almost always run with the 4-2-3-1, which it excels against. Secondly, I observed that elite players are less likely to launch risky lightning counters, which is Guardiola's Tactic's biggest weaknesses. Their counters would be more controlled, with less risk of losing the ball, giving me more time to shore up at the back.

    Lets take a look at why a faithful recreation of Guardiola's tactics is near impossible in FIFA, as it stands

    1. The Failure of Inverted Fullbacks – The addition of inverted fullbacks a couple years ago was supposed to herald a new era of FIFA, bringing in an element of tactical subtlety and a new way of constructing the play and defending on the counter. Unfortunately, after playing well over 3000 games with inverted fullbacks(lowball estimate), I can only say the concept has been a spectacular failure. Whether they are set on balanced or join the attack, and with low offensive and defensive width, the inverted fullback consistently fails to take up the pseudo-cdm position we have come to see in the real life Kyle Walker and Zinchenko. While they may occasionally do this, they are just as likely to be tripping over their winger on the touchline in the next attack. Inverted fullbacks will consistently gravitate towards the touchline. And because your central midfielders are offensive minded, leaves you exposed on the counter.
    2. The Central Midfielder Dillema – In FIFA, your average central midfield player is first and foremost defined by his defensive aptitude (this includes pace lol). This is a quality that comes even before fluidity (how he feels on the ball) and offensive quality. In Guardiola's tactic, the central midfielder prioritizes the latter two qualities and spends most of his time looking for combination plays with his striker and winger. Because they are thrown forward, they rely on the inverted fullbacks to stay in deep central positions and thwart the counter… which they don't. Even the perfect midfielders like Gullit and KDB are only useful defensively when they have had time to get back into defensive positions.
    3. The pace and precision of opponents counterattacks(particularly driven passes from defense to attack) – Dread it, run from it, the driven pass arrives all the same. Whether your opponent uses a CAM or not, whether you have both fullbacks on stayback and your DM in place, it will zip right to the attack and next thing you know, Mbappe is home free. When this happens, the 23 passes you have put together trying to construct your attack will seem a colossal waste of time.
    4. The Unreliability of tactical fouling – Another tenet of Guardiola's philosophy (though he would never admit it), tactical fouling has never been viable in fifa. A skilled opponent who is putting together a counterattack will not let you get close enough to grapple him, particularly in the center of the pitch. Right now, tactical fouls are only useful in two scenarios – when your opponent has broken past your last line of defense(more of a professional foul tbh), and when you have been beaten on the wing and need to stop him from driving infield.

    Jurgen Klopp's Red Army

    As a result of these failures, I decided to build a new 4-3-3, modelled on the legendary Jurgen Klopp. I read countless articles to familiarize myself with his system, and watched all their premier league games in the 18/19 season (hate them too much to watch their triumphant last season, which is even more ironic as I'm literally scouse).

    Liverpool's style of play has been explained in countless tactical articles, so I won't bore you with detailed explanations. What is actually important is whether those tactics can be flawlessly implemented in FIFA 21, and I was delighted to find that they could.

    Basic tenets of Liverpool's 4-3-3

    A workmanlike midfield – While Guardiola emphasizes technical excellence and creativity in his midfield, Klopp prefers a trio of workhorses who serves as the team's true base. The midfield is tasked with shuttling the ball quickly to the wing, putting up a quick and effective press, and being available for recycling and winning second balls to keep the attack going.

    Offensive fullbacks – Trent Alexander Arnold and Andrew Robertson are tasked with stretching opposing defenses, linking up with their wingers, and getting the ball into the box

    A pair of lethal wingers that aim for goal – Salah and Mane both prefer the white of the goal nets to the white of the touchline. While they are obviously capable on the touchline, their true aim is to get as close to the goal as possible, bearing the goalscoring responsibility for their teams.

    A central striker that serves as a link– Roberto Firmino serves as a fulcrum that allows his team to get up the pitch, relieving pressure, driving forward, and then linking the play.

    Custom tactics

    The formation – Believe it or not, the formation is actually a 4-3-2-1. Upon testing every single 4-3-3 variant, I came to an inescapable conclusion. Your wingers will NEVER consistently make dangerous infield incursions (unless you use creative runs lol). Whether you use low width, cut inside or get in behind, they still won't be the consistent goal threats you need. But they will in the 4-3-2-1. And they'll still provide all the width you need, when you need it. Win-win situation.

    Defensive Style – Press on Possession Loss : This emulates the famous Klopp Gegenpress, allowing you to harry and hassle the opponents the moment you lose the ball, marking obvious passing lanes and forcing the opponent to slow down while you reset your shape. With the combination of the specific player instructions you will see soon, you'll learn why this setup is virtually immune to counters.

    Width – 5 : Width is one of those things every inquisitive player experiments with. However, like almost all pro players, you will eventually settle back on 5 width. The reason is simple. 4 width invites the lazy ball to the wing, which you then have to cover. 6 width invites the hopeful through ball through the center.. and well, I'm sure you've all suffered enough from Mbappe already.

    Depth – 8 : Sounds risky, doesn't it? But with the improvements to pressure this year, its rather easy to stall the opponent high up the pitch and either force them to play it long to Mbappe or run the risk of a turnover by playing it short. Skilled opponents can and will play through the press, but you have both the numbers to press them high up the pitch, and the defensive structure to slow the opponent down if they do get through your press. Expertise at predictive player switching, especially to your center backs, is a prerequisite. If you can't anticipate the obvious through ball, consider lowering your depth. I'm well aware that stuff like delay and FIFA error can affect your efficiency at mopping up through balls, so there's no shame in lowering your depth a bit in bad gameplay.

    Offensive Style – Possession: I've always been a big fan of balanced, and ran it in my previous Guardiola tactic. But considering we don't particularly restrain our fullbacks and central midfielders, balanced runs the risk of having our players rush too far up the pitch without securing the defensive base first. 4231 users have the freedom to run balanced, because both fullbacks and DMs are already set to stay back. By running possession, we are able to ensure our runners pick the right time to make their offensive ventures, while limiting vulnerability on the counter

    Depth – 6: 6 depth serves as the sweet spot that allows your players to space effectively, preventing Kante being able to mark two of your players at once, for example. It's particularly useful for stretching the opponent defense when you funnel the ball onto the wings, carving them open so you can play the ball back towards the now exposed opposite end of the pitch (for example, I play a nice Crossfield pass to Trent on the right. Opponent has to shuffle across. I then play it back infield to Henderson, who finds Mane on the opposite side in the gap between fullback and centerback. Salah has occupied one centerback, Firmino the other)

    Players in Box – 5: Did a lot of fiddling here as well. Was a tough battle between 4 and 5 but 4 PiB sometimes sees the player on the opposite wing suddenly stop running when he would have been unmarked for a far post cross. We don't want more than 5 players in box cus this is FIFA and we're mostly not crossing anyways( even if its better than FIFA 20 crossing). Cutbacks and passes into the penalty box are more effective and 5 PiB is perfect at facilitating this

    Corners – 2

    Free Kicks – 2

    Player Instructions

    Instructions are what truly makes or breaks a formation. Each one is crucial. After years of experimentation, I've realized one thing – less is more. If you aren't totally sure exactly how you want each player to play, don't wing it. For the purposes of this tactic, I have tried a plethora of combinations and finally reached something I'm satisfied with

    Goalkeeper – Unless you play drop back 1 depth, theres absolutely no reason not to enable both proactive GK instructions

    - Saving on Crosses – Comes for Crosses

    - Saving Outside box – Sweeper Keeper

    Right Back – I realized most of my attacks naturally come through the right. Like many of you, I'm slightly biased to the wing closer to the camera. But even so, I examined my map tracking in the stats section after playing 24 friendly matches in FUT on default instructions and realized im slightly more present on right than left. So I needed to create a structure that enabled this.

    - Attacking Runs – Join the Attack

    Centerbacks – Leave on Default

    Left Back – The left back provides a balanced presence, keeping tabs on the opposing winger while searching for an opportunity to provide offensive support. He is kept in check by the possession offensive tactic, which allows him to venture forward only when he deems his defensive base safe.

    - Run type – Overlap

    Center Central Midfielder – Your main defensive presence. Initially I had huge doubts about the 4-3-2-1 because I expected he would suffer the FIFA 21 bug of letting the opponent waltz through the center. But Drop Between Defenders kills two birds with one stone. First, it allows the two central defenders to split wide in possession, enabling your fullbacks to step up the pitch. Second, he stays deep and then steps up to engage the opponent's central threat on the counter, while your central defenders compress and your fullbacks drop back.

    - Attacking Support – Drop Between Defenders

    Right Central Midfielder – The purpose of this player is to provide a base through which the attacking fullback on his side can venture forward freely. He is always available to recycle possession in a stumped attacking move, and is adept at delaying the opponent. Frustratingly, he will still stand around like a clueless fool in defense unless you give him aggressive interceptions (please fix this shit EA)

    - Attacking Support – Stay back while attacking

    Interceptions – Aggressive

    Left Central Midfielder – The left central midfielder is the only player on the team with the maximum degree of freedom. He is comfortable creating an overload in the center, overlapping his striker, or even sitting in the half-space pocket between the opponents central defensive midfield and fullback. He needs good pace for his tricky movement, decent finishing ability, and fluidity on the ball.

    - Positioning Freedom – Free Roam

    Interceptions – Aggressive

    Right Forward and Left Forward – These dudes are the real stars of your team. As comfortable darting between fullback and centerback as they are on the touchline, their unpredictable movement allows them to run defenders ragged. They are excellent at linking up with your central players and fullbacks, and use their attacking positioning and pace to create easy goalscoring opportunities. Rather than give them concrete instructions such as stay central or stay wide, I found they are most effective when they choose their method of attack, while I then build the play around their position. Because of their lightning pace and how easily they are found by through balls from the central striker, they are allowed to Get In Behind

    - Attacking Runs – Get in Behind

    Striker – The striker is tasked with serving as a link between the midfield and his two wide forwards. He is no slouch himself, and even with the false 9 instruction, will still be ready and willing to play off the shoulder of the last man when necessary. Come back on defense is honestly an offensive rather than defensive setting for him, allowing him to be easily found by my defense when its time to counter( if you cant beat em..)

    Note The striker on false 9 may not be to your liking. If that's the case, feel free to leave him on balanced. I usually alternate between the two but have been preferring false 9 recently

    - Attacking Runs – False 9 or balanced

    - Defensive Support – Come Back on Defense

    Requirements

    1. The paciest fullbacks you can afford, with good defensive awareness - I have honestly found that defensive awareness actually trumps defensive workrates when it comes to tracking back on defense for fullbacks. Or rather, let me put this way, you know those times when your fullback is high up the pitch and your team loses the ball, and then your opponent begins the counter? You watch as his Adama overtakes your fullback ( who is standing watching) even though the fullback was ahead of him? Defensive awareness is basically marking. When your fullback has a good stat in this, he will fight tooth and nail to track him and prevent the easy pass.
    2. An excellent dribbler, passer and decent finisher to play your LCM position. Basically a CAM-esque player that can still put in a shift in defence.
    3. A striker that is fluid, can find a pass, and finish excellently. Something like Lewandowski I guess, although I honestly use Mbappe here with no problems. In the end he will still score more than both wide forwards
    4. Two pacey forwards with great finishing. Guys like Neymar, Mane, and Salah are ideal for this position, but even something like Adama and Dembele do an excellent job cus shooting is currently broken

    Why this formation is so good

    • Even though its so offensive, it's tough to counter. The base constructed in midfield by both your CDM and RCM is enough to stall the opponent. Furthermore, press on possession loss allows you to stall your opponent if he tries to organize his attack before the counter. The central midfielder locks down the middle of the pitch, while the two center backs, who were split wide to cover threats, slowly narrow their width as your fullbacks recover their position.
    • Offensive firepower – The formation allows you to construct a multilayered attack using both width and depth to pressure your opponents across the pitch. Even immediately after losing the ball, pressure on possession loss allows you to still be a threat by threatening a quick turnover
    • Freedom to lose the ball – In Guardiola's tactic, I was occasionally afraid of the opponents counter, especially if they were the type to brainlessly play the ball up the pitch. Here, theres a stable base that allows you to play in more risky fashion, without fear.
    • Creates a platform to function on the wing – The fact of the matter is most FIFA players are scared of using the wing. For them, the wing is a place to use to quickly relieve pressure, before passing it back to the center for a second go. But its not necessarily that they don't know what to do on the wing. Rather, its because they don't have the support to utilize it well. The average 4-2-3-1 has its fullbacks and CDM's on stayback. When the wide CAM gets the ball, he has only 2 options. To beat the fullback 1v1, which is often impossible even for skillers, or to hold it a little and pass it to their fullback(20 yards back) and restart the attack. The 4-3-2-1 instead offers support and a platform for combination plays. With an overlapping fullback, a wide forward, and a supporting CM close by, It gives real freedom on the wing to enable the creative side you never knew you had.
    • Wide forwards who get involved. Thank fuck for this. Before I found this formation I used to wonder why I needed to buy Neymar on the wing in a 4-3-3 when I could just use Dembele and they'd have the same impact. In this 4-3-2-1, they actually feel like goal threats.

    How to use

    Honestly, the formation kinda plays itself. I could have written a nice lengthy essay about how to build up attacks and create overloads, but I honestly feel you'll find the answers in just a few games. A few tips though..

    • Its easier to play through the side with the offensive fullback. I usually build up my play on the right, with the help afforded by the right back. It's also pretty tough for the opponent to counter through this flank because he must pull his winger back to contend with your fullback. If he instead pulls his Kante to the wing to deal with the overload you've created, you have a free path through the middle
    • Don't neglect the cross. Like most players, I never liked crossing the ball. However, I've learned just how effective crossing can be when you've created the right situation for it. Don't cross as a desperation measure. Instead, after you've created some space on the wing, watch the runner, especially the one at the far post. The goals I score from crosses aren't contested headers. Instead, the runner is found in acres of space, because he's beaten his marker on the run.
    • Create overload on one side, of the pitch, then quickly funnel the play to the opposite side. This is how I score most of my goals. I chill on the wing drawing the opposition, then pass back to one of my midfielders who looks for the opposing winger's run.
    • Lay it off to your offensive CM – The free roam instruction on your LCM is the key to breaking down stubborn defenses. He makes unorthodox runs and can and will overlap the striker when he deems it necessary (often). Plus he likes taking up nice positions on the outside of the box
    • Stuck in attack? Recycle the play to your CMs – That's literally what they're there for. They sit higher up the pitch than DMs and thus are better suited to supporting the attack. Feel free to pass it to them when you're stuck and have them draw out the opposition before trying again. No need to rush.

    Conclusion

    That's all folks. I had a blast tuning and refining this formation over several hundred games. It has been amazing fun and in terms of effectiveness, is probably the best formation I've ever used. I've long been a passionate lover of the 4-3-3 formation (and a vicious hater of the 4-2-3-1), and although this is technically a 4-3-2-1, it stays in my heart as the 4-3-3 I've always loved. I hope you'll give this a try and experience as much joy and fun as I did. Thank you!

    Tl;dr -

    The tactics and instructions condensed

    Finally, I would say I've tested and extensively experimented on almost every custom tactic and instruction in the game at this point, so I have a pretty encyclopedic knowledge in this regard and am willing to answer any questions on exactly how they work and their advantages/disadvantages

    submitted by /u/Ripamon
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    Coming tomorrow, 11/10

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 10:01 AM PST

    Out of my 8 years of playing Fifa, I have never seen something like this.

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 07:31 PM PST

    Look, I am not one to normally get all pissy about a loss. But this specific match, I am in awe. Tonight I came up against an opponent who scored in the 25th minute with aguero. Then watched the entire celebration. Who cares, right? It's normal, it happens. But then, he paused the game. And then subbed off every attacking player he had, (he already had full backs at the RM and LM position), and put on defenders. So, a 4-5-1, with not one attacker. And he then proceeded to go drop back, 0 depth. He didn't try and attack once, and the AI blocking was his best friend. I went on ultra attacking, put it in a 3-4-2-1 and just tried. But I could not score. I am not particularly upset about losing this match, it's FIFA, but it is the fact that I have never seen something like this before blows my mind. I truly never thought I would see the day. Hope you never have to come up against this shit lmao.

    submitted by /u/QueenR0bby
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    My Lahm has turned Portuguese and lost all of his icon powers.

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 04:42 PM PST

    Comparing the best players from the first 6 TOTWS of the last 4 game cycles:

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 09:48 AM PST

    Played against Phil Foden last night in FUT Champs.

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 09:22 AM PST

    �� #UEL #RTTF items, inbound Coming 6 p.m. UK 10/11

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 03:02 PM PST

    I love how random pack pulls and SBCs can dramatically alter the structure of your team

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 09:50 AM PST

    Started the season with a La Liga team - Benzema and OTW Suarez up front - nothing too special, pretty slow compared to most, but I was having fun.

    A couple of weeks ago I was fortunate enough to pack a red Werner and thought, "How can I fit this bastard in without going down the lame meta PL path?" - then I noticed the Mukiele objective - a card I wouldn't have bought from the market, but it's free, so why not? And then I saw the Bellarabi SBC. Again, not one I would have usually done, but hey... a German link between my new prized striker and a quality right back!

    Bought IF Kimmich for the CM slot and I've suddenly gone from a La Liga team to a three-league hybrid that's heaps of fun and an all-German/Bundesliga right-hand side, all due to one pack pull.

    Anyone else changed their team dramatically this year after a pack pull, or an SBC they just had to do?

    submitted by /u/SundayRed
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    My RTTF Europa league prediction. Who do you think it is?

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 08:48 PM PST

    NEVER celebrate too early!!! Opponent scored on himself after scoring the winner... Ended up winning in pens.

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 05:19 PM PST

    Ligue 1 POTM Nominees - Mbappe, Ben Yedder and Bamba

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 09:03 AM PST

    Anyone else bored of this game already?

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 10:00 AM PST

    im sick and tired of seeing the same Mendy/Varane/Gomez/Semedo/Alisson backline every single game. how people have over 600k to splash on a backline this early on makes no sense to me. autoblocks and rebounds are as potent as ever, with counter attacking being the meta yet again. friendlies arent even friendly, they still have sbmm and infinite loans so you're facing at least Mbappe every game in there too. co-op rivals is the only thing keeping me playing, at least then i can be frustrated with my friend so we can share the pain.

    that being said, see you next weekend league

    submitted by /u/ioniums
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    brothers fc team

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 04:05 AM PST

    Appreciation post

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 09:19 AM PST

    I've been playing FIFA ever since FIFA 94. I admit, first of all, I'm an old f*ck, and second, I might have skipped a FIFA here and there. Plenty are the moments of aggression, frustration and anger. But I kept on playing, because, hey, we love this game and we certainly love complaining about this game!

    Today was one of the highlights of my FIFA life! Ever since FUT started I never, ever pulled a promo. I am no hardcore player, I dabble around in Div 4/5 and I love some SBC's. But today was my day! I pulled Essien from a stupid pack! My first ever "special" player!

    I really don't want to be the umpteenth guy/girl who comes here bragging about what player they pulled. But my wife and kids don't want to hear about my excitement... So here it is, for all to here: I PULLED AN ICON!

    By the way, EA, you should really really listen to your community. They really now best.

    submitted by /u/Tim_De
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    If you want more great music you can go to Game Settings -> Audio and enable Volta Tracks

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 09:41 AM PST

    German Tier 2 Player did a 30-0

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 04:55 AM PST

    Wish EA would do something like this. Europa League gets no love :(

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 09:21 AM PST

    I would bite at the opportunity instantly for a flashback Hatem Ben Arfa

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 02:02 PM PST

    He looks like he’s straining HARD

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 10:19 AM PST

    Why are most of my opponents from Mexico?

    Posted: 09 Nov 2020 08:04 PM PST

    The majority of my online games feel super clunky and laggy, and I've noticed that often times my opponents' gamertag or club name is in Spanish. I've started messaging every opponent after the game and asking if they're from Mexico, and about 7/10 that respond say that they are.

    I'm from Minnesota, so I can't imagine that someone from Mexico is the closest opponent that matchmaking can find. Is there a way to change which server I'm playing on? Are there even geographically placed servers, or is the whole continent just one big server?

    submitted by /u/RafaelNadalFTW
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